Microsoft Blesses LGPL, Joins Apache Foundation

Penguinisto writes "According to a somewhat jaw-dropping story in The Register, it appears that Microsoft has performed a trifecta of geek-scaring feats: They have joined the Apache Software Foundation as a Platinum member(at $100K USD a year), submitted LGPL-licensed patches for ADOdb, and have pledged to expand their Open Specifications Promise by adding to the list more than 100 protocols for interoperability between its Windows Server and the Windows client. While I sincerely doubt they'll release Vista under a GPL license anytime soon, this is certainly an unexpected series of moves on their part, and could possibly lead to more OSS (as opposed to 'Shared Source') interactivity between what is arguably Linux' greatest adversary and the Open Source community." (We mentioned the announced support for the Apache Foundation earlier today, as well.)

The Devil must be pissed off

He doesn't like cold.

Unrelated News

In unrelated news, evolution picks up pace as pigs gain wings.

Obligatory Simpsons Quote

Mr. Burns: Smithers I'm thinking about donating some money to the orphanage... when pigs fly!
(Smithers and Burns both laughing)
(Homer's BBQ pig flies past the window)
Smithers: Will you be making that donation now, sir?
Mr. Burns: Eh, I'd rather not.

Insanity!

I love seeing things get open sourced just as much as the next guy, but who in their right mind would WANT the source code for Vista?

Ballmer's Google complex?

There's some 'embrace, extend, obsolete' in here somewhere, but I'm beginning to think that this behavior from MS has a lot more to do with Ballmer's seemingly obsessive desire to overtake Google.

In other words, in order to defeat their enemy, they're going to try to BECOME their enemy first. MS is trying to emulate everything Google does, including supporting open source projects.

Embrace....

Extend...
Extinguish.

Sorry Microsoft, but given their past behavior and downright malicious attacks, they're going to have to do far more to gain trust.

What is interesting/scary is that for a relatively small amount ( As seen from the Microsoft Universe ), they could buy off virtually every project, of note, out there. How many projects could be supported on Microsoft's toilet paper budget alone?

Re:Embrace....

If it's LGPL, they can "extend" as much as they want and people can fork whenever they think MS has gone too far.

There's much reason for caution.

There is much reason for caution. Historically, Microsoft helped to fund SCO's attack on Linux - we have court testimony under oath on that. They briefed HP on their plans to sue the the developers of Sendmail, Linux and other programs - we have the HP memo, which HP admitted was real. Their agreement with Novell was calculated to break the spirit of the GPL without violating the letter, so they've shown they are happy to cheat the developer community when it's to their advantage. More recently, they have cheated every way they could in getting Office Open XML through ISO, even having one of their executives pose as officer of a national standards organization.

The Apache and LGPL licenses aren't much of a threat to them. GPL is, because GPL prevents "embrace and enhance", Microsoft's commonly-exercised strategy to take over a market. Microsoft has signed over work to FSF in the past when it was necessary to get changes into GCC for one of their (past) divisions that was making a Unix compatibility layer. I don't think this is the first time they've had to deal with GPL, by far.

So, the big question is, have they turned over a new leaf? I think they're still a super-size multinational for-profit corporation, and the reality is that every one of those will be self-serving first, whether they are Microsoft or someone more usually identified as a "friend" to Open Source. But Microsoft has managed to set themselves ahead of other corporations as a frequent user of dirty-fighting tactics to get its way. I don't expect that corporate culture to go away.

I think we still have some big problems with Microsoft, primarily around software patents. They are still in a position to attack Linux with them, although they would probably do that using a proxy, as they did with SCO. Their increased involvement in Open Source organizations means that they will be taken as a member of the Open Source community when they speak with national legislators. This is terrible for us, because it means they'll be able to short-circuit our work to protect Open Source from software patents by speaking to government as an insider in our communities. They've been lobbying for a software patent treaty between Europe and the U.S. (part of the "anti-piracy treaty" currently under discussion but not available to the public) which could make criminal prosecution a new tool against suspected patent infringers on both sides of the Atlantic. And because this is a treaty rather than legislation, it effectively takes the question out of public debate and just leaves it to congress to approve or reject the entire treaty. Want to guess how many people in congress want to be seen as "for piracy"? Any non-trivial software program infringes patents, Open Source or not. We're still in rather deep trouble regarding this, if anyone wants to push the issue. And their general counsel made clear, in a recent speech at OSBC, that they're still not willing to put down the patent "gun".

So, I can't say I think this is a good thing.

Bruce

Re:Maybe it has something to do with this ...

Dear AC,

The story you are referring to is written by a software patent proponent who would like to reverse the USPTO's new position on software patents. He is choosing google as his example in order to inflame other corporate attorneys into working on the problem in favor of software patenting.

I would be overjoyed if the Bilski case and other recent cases solved the software patent problem for us. But I think the reality is that congress is ready to repair the situation and restore whatever software patenting the courts and USPTO administrators take away.

Never

Apple will never use Intel processors.
Dell will never ship AMD processors.
Dell will never ship Linux.

These things happen. People can change their minds. Microsoft is still doing evil and illegal things on a regular basis (like last year, offering illegal bribes to get Nigeria to drop Mandriva) but not every single employee at Microsoft is evil. Not every department is necessarily evil.

Microsoft has been doing a number of reasonably good things for a while now, and everyone keeps suggesting they are part of some scheme and conspiracy. People shouldn't be completely shocked by this act.

I think it is just a continuation of a new trend towards being slightly less evil. Every time Microsoft opens more protocols, releases more code, and tries to work with the OSS community, instead of acting like children and calling names, I think the community should encourage Microsoft to continue the trend of migrating to a more open company.

Re:Never

People shouldn't be completely shocked by this act.

Nobody is shocked, but everybody is rightfully suspicious.

This is a move against Linux...

The real reason they are doing this is to make the option of running Apache on Windows more appealing. This way Windows has an easier time gaining ground on Linux in the server market.

Like others have said, embrace and extend typically leads to something getting extinguished. They are not to be trusted. Sorry.

irrelevant

Have they renounced their "200 patents" claim? Have they stopped bundling, tying, and bullying vendors?

No.

All this other stuff is largely irrelevant. OSP is legally meaningless, the LGPL doesn't require Microsoft's blessing, and joining the Apache foundation could be as sinister as their ISO efforts.

Microsoft seems to have been moving a little in the right direction, but they are still far away from being trustworthy or respectable.

Re:Keep off the cynicism...

Even if they finally turned around and will finally work with everyone else with no dark agenda for the future, old-timers like me (i.e. more than 25-30 years old) will not trust them until they have really proven themselves.

Their most recent move was the OOXML fiasco, so you can understand my skepticism.

Re:Keep off the cynicism...

old-timers like me (i.e. more than 25-30 years old) will not trust them until they have really proven themselves.

Since when is 25 old? I just turned 25 and have yet to tell kids to "Get off my lawn", "Turn down that music" or say "Back in my day..."

Re:Keep off the cynicism...

They may have lost the fight, but ISO's leadership shows every sign that it will dismiss the four national protests and publish the standard. That's really all Microsoft needs. Regardless of whether their future software will read ODF, it's going to write OOXML unless you go through significant pain to stop it from doing so. So, it's somewhat likely that Microsoft will still pull a victory out of this one.

Last I checked, MS still claims Linux 'IP'

More likely this is a move to build OSS and interoperability cred they'll need in court if/when they feel the need to pull a SCO against Linux.

Re:Last I checked, MS still claims Linux 'IP'

It's a big company. Takes a long time for everyone to start going in the same direction, especially given Microsoft's entrenched culture and weak leadership.

The way this works is some guy deep in the bowels of some special project says to his boss "look, I know what our policy is but I really need to contribute this patch so that it gets incorporated into future versions. See, this benefits us. Can we make an exception". By some miracle it gets approved, and thus an internal movement is born. It may take years for all the upper management asshats to get their head around it, but this is how it starts. I agree with the GP, surprisingly nothing stinks about this particular movement, albeit deep in the bowels of the company.

Re:Keep off the cynicism...

Maybe they finally got tired of being wrong. This is surprisingly clueful behaviour, and should be encouraged.

Sure. But actions are where it's at. Let's see what Microsoft does with this. They've got a long history (up to recent events) of doing Bad Things.

Maybe this is a turning point. I hope it is. But the cynic in me believes Micrsoft is holding something behind their back.

My guess is this is simply another shot at figuring out Linux's air supply. The old standby of sales didn't work. Copyrights and patents haven't really provided any handholds. Businesses have been resistant - and really, it's just a different angle on sales. So the new tact is to go after the LAMP stack (or the general idea that LAMP represents).

Sure - "developers, developers, developers" still holds true. But now it extends to "applications, applications, applications."

Re:The Mayans were wrong

Hey, Duke Nukem Forever still isn't out. It's not the end of the world YET.

Re:The Mayans were wrong

The Mayans never claimed the world would end. They only claimed their funky calendar would run out of days.

Re:The Mayans were wrong

The end of the world happens in 2008

More probably, 2007 was The Year of the Linux Desktop. The Asus eeePC showed that the Linux desktop is a perfectly viable business proposition, at the same time that Windows Vista flopped in the market.

Microsoft isn't defeated yet, but they are certainly doing a strategic retreat. You can be quite sure they will do their best effort to regroup and counterattack, but at this moment no one can deny that free software is advancing.

Re:Yeah, right

Wasn't the Java situation more like embrace, extend, lawsuit, retreat?

Re:Circling the drain....

You should do some research. Microsoft has $23 billion dollars in cash. They have no debt at all. Every quarter is profitable. Check out real numbers here [google.com] and let those inform your rantings.

Re:Circling the drain....

Apple doesn't take 30% off the top. I believe they do with iPhone apps, but certainly not with Mac OS X apps. Secondly, you completely misinterpreted my comment. I said Apple was gaining market share (which they are). I made no comment on their being more or less open than MS. The point I'm making is that no one stays on top forever. MS knows this, and they know they need to start getting their shit together, or they are going to lose their asses in the long run.