I spent Mother's Day this year ...
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Comment removed (Score:5, Funny)
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The phrase is followed by gunfire
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
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Let me tell you about mine. (Score:4, Informative)
She's legally disabled, though fully ambulatory and could easily work a desk job if she could just get her head screwed on straight and got some basic computer training. But anyway she's gets a fixed income to lay around the house watching TV all day, and a pretty small one because she worked under the table most of her life and so reported almost no income and programs like unemployment and disability insurance are based on reported income. Because of this she's never been able to be there for me when I needed her most, including when I was literally starving unable to buy food in my early 20s and temporarily homeless in my mid-20s. Between which times she repeatedly "borrowed" (that I later had to write off) hundreds of dollars from me on multiple occasions despite me making from work (between classes at college) about the same as she was getting for doing nothing.
Despite all that we've normally got along pretty well and for some reason I never hated her like I did my dad who stole and cheated thousands of dollars out of me while I was living in his tool shed after mom went back into rehab in late high school / early adulthood. I'm not really sure why I thought she was any better, despite evidence to the contrary. I guess I just wanted to still have at least one parent.
So last year mom moved from a very nice place with a slightly annoying housemate to instead live with a "friend" who it sounded at first was going to let her live for free, but then turned out to want to charge her rent, then higher rent, also plus utilities, all adding up to more than mom was already barely managing to pay. I told her this was a terrible idea and not to do it but she was so excited and so hated her housemate (who had the gall to ask her to clean up after herself!) that she did it anyway.
Over the course of that year that decision and her inability to adapt to the consequences of it dug her into a hole that I had to keep bailing her out of to the tune of about $700 (because she'd spend all her money and then not have the cash to pay for prescription drugs that she couldn't just stop taking suddenly like that), until finally when it was a few hundred in one month I said no, she has to figure something else out, I can't keep doing this indefinitely. All that money was "borrowed", and each time she promised to start paying back $50/mo the next month, except then she needed more, and when that pattern became clear I had to say no. I've recently just barely managed to get my own life to a place where I might, if I'm really lucky and work really hard my whole life, not end up like her, and I can't let her become an anchor on me because she can't live with the consequences of her own decisions.
Come January I find out that when I said no, she went to two different payday loans places, and has been going to them repeatedly, has her disability income going straight to one of them to take out her payment out before giving her the rest, and the other repeatedly is sending a check to the bank to cover it which then doesn't clear because her money's not getting deposited there anymore, so the bank account is racking up tons of overdraft charges. So by January she has no check left and owes about $200 each to the bank and each of the two payday loans companies and has no rent money much less food money for the month and comes begging me to bail her out again.
I tell her to ask anybody and everybody else she can possibly ask, as all of her siblings are pretty well off (despite their father abandoning them and their still-destitute mother as children, and their step-mother stealing all of the family's inheritance when grandpa died). She says she did and they all said no, and comes begging me for help. I can't just let mom go homeless, I think, so I agree that I will pay off all those debts (so they stop growing) and pay her rent and buy her a month's worth of cheap groceries like I lived off of for the past decade if she will let me take charge of her finances and get her so
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We are all human, to varying degrees, which means in this case that we neither make nor had perfect parents. Despite even benevolent motive, we all fall short on some occasion(s).
My sister and I have a saying about our relationship. Even with many years of separation, we remain close because we were damaged by the same two people.
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This isn't caring, this is guilt.
You can care for someone, by letting them fail. Some people need to hit bottom to be willing to recover. If they never hit bottom, then no recovery is even possible. When we feel guilty for allowing someone to fail, it isn't caring.
And what about all the other people hurt in this process? The children, wife/husband and friends being ignored by having to focus on a parent who is unable to help themselves, and unwilling to change? The casualties here are more numerous than one
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I don't know that it'd call it guilt, but definitely more obligation than caring. I don't feel "oh no! that would be so terrible for you, let me do anything I can to make it better!", though I do recognize that it would be terrible for her. I feel "sigh, I guess nobody else is going to fix this, so I have to...". But I'm like that about most things. I rarely feel emotionally motivated to do good things or not do bad things; it's more of an intellectual sense of duty. I kind of think that's a better motive f
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But. There are some r
Re:Let me tell you about mine. (Score:4, Interesting)
If she were retirement age it would be something different. If I were middle-aged and well-established in life with a house and a wife and kids of my own, and my aging parents needed some help getting by, that's not ridiculous to ask for. Parents care for kids when they're young, kids care for parents when they're old.
But no, she's at least a decade from retirement age. I'm barely over thirty, and have just barely secured a course in life that might have me, in a decade or two, to the kind of place in life she and dad were (before they threw it all away) when they were almost a decade younger than me, with a house and marriage and all that. (We don't want kids, but I'd want the house and marriage before the kids even if we did, for the kids' sake as much as my own).
And she has the gall to tell me that kids taking care of their parents is the normal course of things, despite how terribly off-schedule we are even given that. And when I say that, she says I should count my blessings to be doing as well as I can to live on my own, as many of my generation are still living with their parents in their 30s. And I tell her that that's not a blessing, I mean I am statistically doing better than my peers but I wasn't happy to move out on my own when I did, and I really couldn't afford it back then (I'm paying the same now making 3-4X as much as then and now I can reasonable afford it). I just didn't have parents I could live with. Staying with mom would mean sharing a bed with mom, and staying with dad meant living in a tool shed next to his trailer, and then he dared to start charging rent for that, at which point if I'm paying rent I'm going to get a real fucking room for it, and moved out.
What I wanted back before everything went to shit, when I thought I had a loving supportive middle-class family (somehow they put up that illusion, no doubt by living beyond their means), was to live at home through college (we're within commuting distance of my university) plus a little bit longer, just enough to save for a down payment on a house and then start buying my own. Instead, having to rent and work my way through school, I was three years late graduating, couldn't afford to take any risks in my career living check-to-check afterward, and am tens of thousands of dollars behind schedule on saving to start buying a house. I'd love to have had the option those 30-somethings living for free with their middle-class parents are taking advantage of. When it came time that I briefly couldn't make it on my own, I didn't have that option to fall back on. That's why I fight so goddamn hard to make it on my own. Because if I fail, nobody else is going to save me. I'm sure mom would if she could, but she can't even fucking save herself, and dad's the same way.
And yeah, "ridiculous times" indeed, that so many of my generation have to fall back on that option. I gripe constantly about the impossible uphill battle to secure a place in life I have ahead of me, but then I look at the statistics about how well I'm actually doing compared to other people and it's just like... jesus. We're fucked. We are all fucked. The whole goddamn world is doomed, if I'm a statistical paragon of success.
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It sounds to me that if you are "blessed" for being independent, it sure as hell had nothing to do with her parenting skills.
Your story makes the crap I'm dealing with, with my in-laws, seem pretty manageable (other than that the dollar amounts are about 5 times higher).
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I was about to say that he should tell his story on reddit so that they'll give him some money.
From what I have observed of Slashdot, everyone here made their lives for themselves with no help from anyone while working 40 hours a week going through University and then onto a graduate program. Not sure what this guys gripe is because he gave his mom a little money.
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From what I have observed of Slashdot, everyone here made their lives for themselves with no help from anyone while working 40 hours a week going through University and then onto a graduate program.
Mod parent up, hilarious.
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I gripe because I haven't "made my life", either for myself or with anyone else's help. I'm still struggling to do so and had just barely secured slim hope of eventually doing so somewhere a decade or two down the line when this bullshit happened. And four months my rent money all at once is not exactly "a little money".
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Yes please, she won't stop fucking whining and if she's in the hospital at least I know she isn't fucking anything else up.
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Our generation is definitely screwed compared to recent past ones, but I don't know enough about the younger kids to say if they've got it any better than us.
I am gauging my success and the world's fucked-ness on age-independent statistics though. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, I make a mean income for an American, as in, GDP per capita in the United States is about the same as what I make; but the median income is about half of that (so half of Americans make half or less of the theoretical "
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I think that if you check, you'll find that pretty much every generation in history has said pretty much the same thing.
I suspect that your analysis of the current generation is about as wrong as all the others....
By the by, do remember that GDP per capita doesn't actually map well with FAMILY income. My parents, for instance, had three kids, with M
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I wasn't really the one making a generational analysis, just casually agreeing with someone else's that sounds pretty plausible from my personal experience and the things I hear other people saying.
Anyway, with regard to average incomes, the mean personal income is approximately equal to the median household income, both of which in turn are approximately twice the median personal income. Which suggests that the median household has two median income-earners supporting it, not one earner supporting five peo
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She calls me repeatedly during the anniversary vacation to urgently tell me about trivial shit like something mean her sister said to her mom, despite repeated vehement requests to give me a few goddamn days not dealing with her shit now that she's safe and sound. It ruins any calm the vacation might have given me, and I come back from it even more stressed than I had left.
You need to not answer her calls in that situation (if you do answer anyway, and it's something trivial, say, "sorry mom, bye." and hang up).
Seems like she needs to be treated like a pet......need to make sure she has enough food, water, and shelter; but don't expect her to have any responsibility other than being toilet trained.
If she calls you, ask her if she got her daily payment (my understanding is you set it up so she gets a portion of money every day). If she does, say, "that's good. There will
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The pet thing is right. What I really want is for her to be in like an assisted living center or something, but that would cost even more money that she already doesn't have. The happiest I've been all year was when she was at an extended stay in the hospital, because I knew she was being taken care of and watched over and couldn't screw anything up while she was there.
(Then, as it turned out, her shithead housemates ransacked her room and stole her pills while she was in the hospital, so even that brief mo
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But anyway, it would be good if you could set something up with her pills, so she gets a delivery once a day (or even once a wee
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Re:Let me tell you about mine. (Score:4, Interesting)
I feel you, man.
My mom is great, mind you. My challenge is my adult daughter. I do have the (very large!) advantage over you of already being established. Well enough that from an actual financial perspective I can probably weather just about anything she can do. But the emotional situation is similar, with the twist that as her father I feel like I actually AM responsible.
I'm in the process of preparing to screw myself to help her go to beauty school, so that she hopefully ends up with some way to support herself. I just paid off $3K of debt that collectors were hounding her for, so that she can get a student loan for another $12K -- which I'm co-signing. Without that debt paid off the bank wouldn't lend her money even with a solid co-signer. With it paid off, they'll lend to her but only if I'm on the hook. To sort of put her on the hook for the $3K she owes me, I took out a signature loan with her as co-signer. The understanding is that I'll make the payments on both loans until she graduates and starts earning an income, then she'll pick them up.
Yeah, right.
Here's what's really going to happen: She'll go to school for a while and then get in a fight with one of her classmates or instructors and announce that everyone there hates her and that she can't do it any more and refuses to go. Of course, the school insists on getting paid up front. There is a refund schedule if you don't finish, on a sliding scale depending on how far you got before you quit, but the schedule starts with them keeping 50% of the $10K tuition and all of the $2K materials costs, that's if you quit the first day. It rapidly gets worse after that. I don't blame the school; I'm sure they need to protect themselves.
So, then, she'll have $15K of loans which my name is on, and be unable to pay them. So either I'll make the payments or my credit rating will go down the toilet. Which means I'll make the payments. But even though that's how I expect it to go down, I'm going to do it anyway, because there is a chance that she may actually be able to do this and I really want to help her get herself established. She does really like doing hair, nails and makeup, so maybe.
Anyway, I'm posting this mostly as an exercise in mutual self-pity and to reassure you that you're not alone (as if you didn't know that), but I also have some concrete suggestions for you.
First, I think you should decide which is more important to you, the $2K your mom owes you, or the relationship you have with her. I'm not implying that you should decide one way or the other, mind you, that's totally on you, and deciding against the relationship wouldn't be unreasonable. But if you decide that the relationship is more important, you should let the money go. It's poisoning the relationship, and it'll get worse.
Second, in the future if she needs money, and you want to give it to her, make it a gift. If you can't do that, you might consider the bank loan idea, as I'm doing with my daughter. It doesn't change the fact that you may end up eating the loss, but it changes the relationship. Rather than you demanding that she give you money, the bank is demanding that both of you give them money, and both of you know it's really her responsibility and that by making her payment you're bailing her out. Each payment you make is a gift to her... but at least they're smaller, more manageable gifts.
I'm setting up automatic payments with my bank's bill pay feature, and using their "confirmation" feature to send my daughter both an e-mail and a text about each and every payment I make for her, ostensibly to keep her in the loop because it's her debt, but really to remind her of each gift.
Third, you may consider using the phone as leverage. It's yours, and you're allowing her to use it. When you've had it and just can't take any more of some particular thing, tell her that if she doesn't cut it out, you'll turn the phone off. This is a fairly effective tool with my daughter, but your mom may be less depe
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Thank you for the kind words, and best wishes with your own situation with your daughter.
With my mom, the relationship is pretty much already shot. When I hear any phone ring or text message come in or anything like that, I jump and start to stress because before I can process it some part of my brain thinks it's my mom. I have nothing left but bad feelings about her, am coming to realize that she has always been this terrible and I just didn't have to deal with it before so the mom I thought I had never re
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I wish you all the best, and hope your mom really does figure out that if you're the most important thing in her life, she's really doing it wrong.
I do have sympathy for her; I'm sure that like my daughter her choices aren't wholly under her own control, and that as hellish as it is to live with her, it's got to be a thousand times worse to be her. But that doesn't change the fact that close contact with someone like that wears on you in ways that you don't even realize until they're gone. My family is st
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Beauty school? I think you're on the wrong site fella.
Why? It's a reasonable living.
In one way it's sad, because she's a very intelligent young woman. Easily capable -- intellectually -- of any university curriculum she wants to pursue. But her mental illness and concomitant emotional instability make it difficult for her to handle that sort of challenge. More to the point, she is convinced that she will fail in a university setting, which guarantees that she will. We can't convince her otherwise. She believes she can do beauty school, and she enjoys that so
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Sacrifice a few things, let you mother move into with you, no matter how little space you have. Take control of her finances if you can, mentor her if you can't. Be her shield and keep her demons away (finance, foolishness, whatever). Start to pay out her loans but prevent her from taking more.
She needs help, she needs your help, tough love - so give that in spades. Money means little when you've lost your family.
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Moving her in with me is the worst idea imaginable, and I think you misapprehend just how little space I have. I live in a one-bedroom trailer. When my girlfriend visits for the weekend, it already feels too crowded. What would be the living room of the trailer (the only space besides the bedroom and bathroom) is my work space (like for the work I do for a living), so she can't live there without putting me out of a job and making us both homelss. Her living here would mean her sleeping in the bathtub or so
Your mother sounds like... (Score:2)
...every Greek government for the last five years [battleswarmblog.com].
"I'm absolutely willing to do anything it takes to get my finances in order, except spending money I don't have."
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I think you missed a "not" in there. "...except NOT spending money I don't have." And yeah, that pretty much sums her up. The only solutions for her are to spend less or make more. Since she can't make more, spend less is the only solution remaining, and it's the one thing she's not willing to do.
Move on. It's your duty to yourself and society. (Score:2)
That is a *very* long story. I could tell a similar one about my father. ... Doesn't matter.
Just briefly: There are hardly any things I can discuss with my father - who is a type-a evangelical christian faith man, a charlatan and a fraud who took the easy way out of his responsiblities and who had the nerve to try and borrow money from me on my 37th birthday, after having left me and my mother to our fate when I was twelve. And countless other things of the same bizar proportions too strange to actually be
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Its drugs (why she always needs advances).
While I would not put it past her motives to be doing drugs (she is a recovering alcoholic after all), I've been so deep in her business this year that I know she doesn't have the means, unless she has a completely different all-cash source of income and a means of transportation other than the ones I know about. Since I'm PoA on her account I see what she spends where, and while she does sometimes withdraw cash that she could be spending nefariously, her primary mode of transportation is rides from my gran
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Can you explain that idiom? I don't get it.
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Thanks for the support. I've already decided that it's not my responsibility, and really my only care at this point is to extricate myself from the situation so she doesn't drag me down with her. If she wants to fight me every time I try to help, then she can ruin her own damn life, just so long as she leaves me out of it.
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The fuck do you care you abrasive shitnugget?
And maybe you missed the part where I said the whole goddamn world is fucked if I'm a "paragon of success".
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Bravo! Thank you. I wish I still had the emotional fortitude to respond to people like that like you just did.
MIssing Option ? (Score:5, Insightful)
Mom's passed away, and I miss her.
Re:MIssing Option ? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:MIssing Option ? (Score:5, Funny)
Maybe option #3. He wasn't specific on circumstances.
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+1
me too, she passed away 16 years ago :(
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Mom's passed away, and I miss her.
This.
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Re: MIssing Option ? (Score:2)
Ditto.
Re:Missing Option ? (Score:2)
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Re:MIssing Option ? (Score:5, Informative)
Mother's Day (and Father's Day) would be a meaningful if there was a general acceptance that parents need to accomplish a bit more than merely breed and see that a child survives to adulthood in order to earn special recognition.
I can't think of another situation where the "everybody gets a trophy, no matter what" effect is more harmful than parenting.
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Celebrating the person who brought you into the world, wiped your ass for you and taught you right from wrong, for one day per year, is not "special recognition". And by "celebrating" I mean buying a card, maybe some flowers, and showing up so she can cook you dinner. I don't mean making any actual effort.
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Parents choose to have children.
Children do not choose to be born.
This means that children owe their parents nothing in exchange for taking care of them before they are capable of taking care of themselves. It was the parents' actions which are responsible for the state of the child's infirmary (relative to adult capabilities), therefore it is their responsibility to correct.
Everything that parents do to bring their child into adulthood is simply the fulfillment of a obligation they incurred when they creat
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Indeed. I didn't owe my mother and father anything.
It wasn't concern for a non-existing me that made them fuck - it was pure lust on their part.
Now they don't exist, and I'm good with that.
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This analysis is spot on.
I go one step further and willingly admit that I should not have been born. Not because I hate my life or I'm a monster that shouldn't exist or any self-pitying/self-hating stuff like that, but because if you gave me a nameless description of two people matching the circumstances of my parents at the time of my conception and asked me if they should have had a kid, I would say "no". Then as a consequence of that general judgement, I'm forced to accept the more specific judgement in
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Celebrating the person who brought you into the world,
Some of us are lucky enough to have parents who made a conscious decision to have children, worked out what it would cost them, understood that it was a responsibility and a commitment, and decided that the costs were worth it. Some people have parents who fucked and forgot the pill (or whatever) and decided that keeping the child was the path of least resistance. For those of us in the first category, one day a year per parent is nowhere near enough - we owe our parents a lot for the advantages that we h
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Mother's Day (and Father's Day) would be a meaningful if there was a general acceptance that parents need to accomplish a bit more than merely breed and see that a child survives to adulthood in order to earn special recognition.
It's worse than that. Mother's Day has turned into a day where every adult woman, whether a mother or not, expects to be treated as if it were their birthday.
There's already March 8 for women.
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My Mom always apologizes about her cooking, lack of homemaker skills and the time that she pushed me to keep walking and stop complaining while I was bleeding out internally from ruptured organs.
I find her to be dear and wonderful and everything that I could hope for in a mother. She taught me how to learn and lit a spark inside of me that is never satisfied with what I can do easily, but with things that are the most difficult for me. She was probably meant for better things starting college at 15 and turn
How I spent Mothers' Day (Score:1)
I called my my mother up and said, "You bore me."
don't lie (Score:1)
You said that because she initially said "You know calling me violates the restraining order, don't you?"
Re:How I spent Mothers' Day (Score:4, Funny)
And she replied, "Keep the basement door closed, son."
Coincidental? (Score:1)
I've met up with my mother on and off for Sunday brunch the last month or two. It's a little out of the way for both of us, but it's a good restaurant (they only do breakfast) and it's a good time to catch up on family news and learn how her cancer treatment is progressing. We missed seeing each other last Sunday for some reason -- travel, perhaps -- and by another coincidence my sister happened to be in town, so of course we met up yesterday as usual.
Mom walked up and said hello, and then "Well, let's hear
Re:Coincidental? (Score:4, Informative)
My best wishes to your mom, regarding her health.
You have some sort of calendar, right? In your calendar, type in the birthdays and anniversaries of the people you care about, for the next few years. Then go to http://www.officeholidays.com/... [officeholidays.com] and http://www.timeanddate.com/tim... [timeanddate.com]. In your calendar, type in the holidays and the days that time changes between standard time and daylight saving time, for the next few years.
For each of those days, set up a week's reminder, so that you have time to mail a card, make restaurant reservations, or whatever.
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I've actually come to actively dislike knowing what date, day, or month it is. That sounds like an excellent suggestion, and a lot of work. Not knowing the day adds a certain amount of hilarity to life, too. I'll think about it.
I appreciate the advice and the good wishes. Unfortunately there does not yet exist a curative treatment for her cancer(s) at this time. However, she's not in any immediate danger and seems to be responding well to her current therapies. It's hard to predict any specific outcome at t
With the Mother of my Children (Score:2)
Spent Friday and Saturday with extended family, including parents and in-laws, so we got maxed out on togetherness and sharing.
Sunday was just my wife, my kids, and me. It was nice.
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This. Options seemed to be skewed towards the unmarried set.
Complaint about missing option (Score:5, Funny)
Mother's day hasn't occurred yet in my country, you insensitive clod!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M... [wikipedia.org]
But everyone will be doing that... (Score:3)
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That is why I avoid the BUSY days. Even Saturday's late afternoon was still crowded!
Missing Option (Score:2)
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Ditto. I was like WTF? It was 2 months ago in the UK.
Didn't realize the UK and US had different dates. The more you know...
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This poll scared the shit out of me making me think Mother's day was today or very recently and I'd forgotten. Screw you /.
Uuhhh? As far as I know in the US it was yesterday.
Which shows that you don't realize that mothers day is celebrated on different dates in different countries. (and screw any ideas that /. is not internationally read)
Mothers day dates by country [wikipedia.org]
Missing option: I spent it with my wife (Score:2)
I spent Friday with my mother so that I could have Sunday be special time with my wife and son. We called my mother-in-law on Sunday (19 hours by plane is too far for a regular weekend).
Doing something special for her (Score:3)
I spent the weekend remodelling my mother's living room. Yesterday I made sure she was kept out of the room the entire day while my brother and I got on with it, she now has a nook where she can do her crafts, read or just chill with her laptop, the other three quarters of the room is given to totally relaxed family entertainment. All very calm tones and the tightest acoustics you can imagine in a room barely 14 by 12 feet.
missing option (Score:3)
Voight-Kampff test (Score:1)
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You lose, time to leave Slashdot
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Time to turn in your nerd credentials... re-apply when you have Roy's tears in the rain speech memorised :)
Alone. (Score:2)
My mother's dead, you insensitive clod. So's my step mom. And all three grandmothers. Divorce did have the benefit of adding extra grandparents and they were awesome.
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Missing Option (Score:3)
Away from my mother, because the courts mandated she never be in contact with me again for life, and I'm happy about it.
Away, away, gone for ever.... (Score:2)
Missing Option.... (Score:3)
I have no mother.. I was created in a lab.
And for some of us, that's late mother (Score:2)
But I suppose almost everyone here is a twentysomething....
mark
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But I suppose almost everyone here is a twentysomething....
The core demographic seems to be grouchy, middle-aged, American libertarians, going by the comments.
See http://royal.pingdom.com/2012/... [pingdom.com] in fact, average age was 38.2 in 2012. Can I assume no new users, and say the average is now over 40?
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But I suppose almost everyone here is a twentysomething....
Of course.
With the mother of my child. (Score:1)
Dead (Score:2)
My mom died 6 years ago. Now this poll makes me sad....
Failed Voight-Kampff (Score:2)
And now there's some nut crazy chasing me trying to kill me. Fucking mother's day.
Mothers (Score:2)
Private Reiben: You wanna explain the math of this to me? I mean, where's the sense of riskin' the lives of the eight of us to save one guy?
Captain Miller: Twenty degrees. Anybody wanna answer that?
Medic Wade: Reiben, think about the poor bastard's mother.
Private Reiben: Hey, Doc, I got a mother, all right? I mean, you got a mother. Sarge's got a mother. I mean, shit, I bet even the captain's got a mother.
[he turns and looks at Miller, who has a bemused expression on his face]
Private Reiben: Well,
I swapped days (Score:2)
I was with my GF on Sunday. However, I did spend Saturday with my mom, some of it helping her get a cellphone because her landline quit working and AT&T never showed to fix the durn thing.
Spent it with CowboyNeals mother (Score:3)
At work (Score:2)
Tropical Storm Ana... (Score:2)
I spent it... (Score:2)
Missing option: Not yet this year (Score:2)
As in France, Mother's Day is on the last sunday of May, it hasn't yet happened this year.
Celebrity Jeopardy answer (Score:3)
How did I spend Mother's Day this year? With your mother, Alex!
Mom. (Score:2)
Passed away (Score:2)
Some of us are old enough that our mothers have passed away. Choices don't clearly opt for that, but mom's day isn't so much fun for us.
Re: (Score:2)
No it was back in March, you insensitive clod (Score:2)