by Anonymous Coward writes:
on Tuesday September 05, 2017 @08:50PM (#55145233)
Java is a shit language. It's best feature is static type safety, and it honestly doesn't do that very well. Then they try to fix the limitations by building these huge, stupid frameworks on top of it. Struts is used everywhere for years despite being shithouse. Then people go "OMG Struts was so bad, let's use Spring instead - it's the best!" except Spring is only good compared to shit like Struts, it's not actually good. It gets worse and worse, actually, encouraging lazy, thoughtless, "automagic" programming where you type in reams of scattered incantations until the app is working in the limited cases you've tested, having spent days and days debugging weird behaviour caused by the incomplete abstraction of the framework.
I have no idea how anyone reasons about large applications using Java frameworks. I suspect that most don't actually reason about them at all, just plough on to the next feature leaving behind bugs and security holes with such careful analysis as "it worked for me" and "the tests pass".
I truly wonder what programming would be like today if people hadn't doubled down on polishing the turd that is Java.
Java Frameworks try to design around the fact that Java as a language is a poor fit for web from the get go.
Go with a language intended for the problem, rather than trying to fit a square peg in a round hole which was thus never going succeed, unless you consider success to be living in denial of Java's unsuitability until eventually the programmer masses point out that the emperor has no clothes so that overnight we all agree Java was a shit choice in the first place.
So, Java, the language (and do you include the JVM into 'Java') is a piece of shit because many people tried hard to build frameworks (many shitty frameworks at that) on top of it?
My systems run on Java and we use no frameworks at all, only tier separation standard, no auto-magic, I like it exactly that way and it works as it is supposed to.
I'll bet you use more than you say, unless you wrote your own servers. Which is possible, I've done more than one of those. Java isn't the problem, and the GP that only has been exposed to Struts 2 and Spring, well, yes, he'd likely think those two things are Java when they're only minor frameworks used for one small subset of things people do with Java, no matter what the appearance is.
The typical page layout program is nothing more than an electronic
light table for cutting and pasting documents.
Java frameworks are polishing a turd. (Score:-1)
Java is a shit language. It's best feature is static type safety, and it honestly doesn't do that very well. Then they try to fix the limitations by building these huge, stupid frameworks on top of it. Struts is used everywhere for years despite being shithouse. Then people go "OMG Struts was so bad, let's use Spring instead - it's the best!" except Spring is only good compared to shit like Struts, it's not actually good. It gets worse and worse, actually, encouraging lazy, thoughtless, "automagic" programming where you type in reams of scattered incantations until the app is working in the limited cases you've tested, having spent days and days debugging weird behaviour caused by the incomplete abstraction of the framework.
I have no idea how anyone reasons about large applications using Java frameworks. I suspect that most don't actually reason about them at all, just plough on to the next feature leaving behind bugs and security holes with such careful analysis as "it worked for me" and "the tests pass".
I truly wonder what programming would be like today if people hadn't doubled down on polishing the turd that is Java.
Re: (Score:0)
Okay.
What do you recommend?
Re: Java frameworks are polishing a turd. (Score:-1)
> What do you recommend?
Elixir.
Java Frameworks try to design around the fact that Java as a language is a poor fit for web from the get go.
Go with a language intended for the problem, rather than trying to fit a square peg in a round hole which was thus never going succeed, unless you consider success to be living in denial of Java's unsuitability until eventually the programmer masses point out that the emperor has no clothes so that overnight we all agree Java was a shit choice in the first place.
Re: (Score:-1)
So, Java, the language (and do you include the JVM into 'Java') is a piece of shit because many people tried hard to build frameworks (many shitty frameworks at that) on top of it?
My systems run on Java and we use no frameworks at all, only tier separation standard, no auto-magic, I like it exactly that way and it works as it is supposed to.
Re: (Score:1)