Not really any different to the FSF, and all they really have is the userland for GNU/Linux distributions. In 3 decades they *still* dont have a production kernel.
The FSF is just doing great, and their kernel is still being developed albeit not on the scale on the similarly licensed and awesome Linux. Which is kind of the point. The reality is the FSF does lots of things. The License still succeeded even if Linus values it for its Tit for Tat qualities as opposed to freedom, but its there, and its close enough to being free software. The also do a little more than a kernel. I someone who is not a Fruit Lover, I personally wished that they had got further with Gnash, a free Flash implementation. I hoped it would open up Flash Development with all the positives without the down sides.
Oh, just drop the prefix on Linux already. Linux is no more GNU/Linux than Minix is GNU/Minix. Consider that the GNU tools were ported to Minix, just like they originally were for Linux, and in the past, Minix has been distributed with a complete GNU toolchain set, just like Linux is. Linux was and is GPL, but it is not and has not ever been part of the GNU project.
So I guess by the same metric, Android isn't Linux either. It is called GNU/Linux, not GNU Linux, the difference being that it is the mix of both tools, not saying that Linux comes from GNU.
Calling it GNU/Linux is suggesting that Linux is just as much a part of the GNU project, as much as gcc, flex, bison, bash, gawk, gdb, and other tools. It is not. It's Linux... not GNU/Linux... the prefix was added by people who simply got tired of waiting for Hurd when Linux did everything that they wanted, and serendipitously was also released under the GPL, but it was not ever part of the GNU project, so GNU/Linux is as much of a misnomer as BSD Linux (since Linux can be distributed with BSD tools ins
"the prefix was added by people who simply got tired of waiting for Hurd"
Wrong : the prefix was added by Richard Stallman himself, who wanted people to remember that if Linus Torvalds did the kernel, GNU built the ecosystem it resides in.
I heard him in person saying this in a speech over 10 years ago.
Just because RMS makes up the notion that Linux is somehow part of the GNU project doesn't make it so.
Let's try a car analogy.... I might manufacture almost all of the parts for an an automobile body, but when somebody else puts those pieces together into a single car, the car is still branded with *their* name... not mine.
Redhat Linux, Slackware Linux, Debian Linux, Gentoo Linux, Ubuntu Linux.... these are all reasonable. GNU, however... does not construct their own distribution of Linux, so GNU/Linu
Are you sure that after you read the facts - you come to that conclusion? I suppose if you have a Freightliner brand semi truck, and a Acme123 Diesel Engine product as the engine - you say you have a Acme123 truck?
You also know you can run Debian(and friends) on a Linux kernel, FreeBSD kernel, or Hurd kernel - with the same user land tools? That's because of GNU! Any of those kernels on their own would be crippled without the incredible suite of userland tools GNU provides. The idea that you don't want to g
I have no problem giving credit to a valuable toolchain... but as I said, I've used other systems that had utilized the GNU tools... but that doesn't make them part of the GNU project. The tools were ported to Linux, just as they were to every other OS that exist for. It's Linux, not GNU/Linux, any more than HPUX, Minix, or AIX become "GNU" simply because the toolchains were ported to them as well.
Hadoop was based on Google code. Solr was based on CNET's code. I can't really think of much that has come out of the Apache Foundation that is 100% homegrown open source and has a steady, active, mature development cycle. Instead it's all fluff and it just feels like to me that unless you're one of the top 20 Open Source software projects out there, that nothing new is coming across.
Anyone else wonder if this has something to do with App Markets and the ease of which one can make money?
Anyone else wonder if this has something to do with App Markets and the ease of which one can make money?
I'm not sure it can all be blamed on app markets, but in part that could have an effect. In that scenario, given that the code is free the ability to make money is really based on marketing. People will pay a couple of dollars to save them the hassle of pulling down the source, building it on their PC and then uploading that to their phones but anybody can do that and in the end the best marketer will win out. Of course then there is also the person who is happy to publish the binary for free (no cost) whic
I can't really think of much that has come out of the Apache Foundation that is 100% homegrown open source [...]
...including, I might add, Apache HTTPD.
Of all of the complaints which could be levelled at the Apache Foundation, this one has to be the least relevant. One of the roles that TAF plays is as a place where you can send your code (as long as it's useful and falls under their purview) to ensure that it's looked after.
Granted, not all of these are of the highest quality, but it may jog your memory of a few projects which are used in high demand environments everyday.
Subversion was originally tigris.org. Geronimo and Derby were IBM products (all donated). Also log4j.
Apache has developed or adopted more products than I can count. OpenJPA, Apache Commons, Axis, CXF, Velocity, Struts. The list goes on and on.
That's part of what they do — provide umbrella support for projects with things like hosting, governance, legal and stuff like that. They're clear indicators of success, of impact. Coding isn't the only thing that a project needs. (FWIW, CXF has definitely been developed quite a bit since adoption.)
Tomcat slow, unreliable and fat? Runs in 12MiB heap, competes in performance with httpd and has never, ever crashed in the 32 server-years we have had it running in production. If you werent able to get it to work, it was probably your buggy application.
Ant, OpenOffice, HTTPD - all of which are best-in-class for serious use. Of course, there are other options for people who like playing with toys that resemble tools adults use.
OpenOffice is a good alternative, but by no means best in class. Maybe it is the only serious solution on Linux and that is a different thing. Best in class in that area is still Microsoft Office by a long shot, hell and even Corel WordPerfect Office, since it has some really cool PDF editing tools in the word processor itself.
But other than that, I think Apache is doing great, even if I never was a Java fan. They have very interesting projects like Nutch/Solr, Traffic Server and by being the main bastion o
You're obviously not a Java developer. We're a Java shop where I work, and we make heavy use of Apache: Apache Commons (org.apache.commons.lang.StringUtils.isNotBlank, anyone?), Struts, XMLBeans, Axis2, and of course ant for our build scripts.
Were there fewer fools, knaves would starve.
- Anonymous
Name me some quality Apache products (Score:1, Troll)
Re: Name me some quality Apache products (Score:3, Interesting)
Solr for starters
Linus is Awesome (Score:4, Interesting)
Not really any different to the FSF, and all they really have is the userland for GNU/Linux distributions. In 3 decades they *still* dont have a production kernel.
The FSF is just doing great, and their kernel is still being developed albeit not on the scale on the similarly licensed and awesome Linux. Which is kind of the point. The reality is the FSF does lots of things. The License still succeeded even if Linus values it for its Tit for Tat qualities as opposed to freedom, but its there, and its close enough to being free software. The also do a little more than a kernel. I someone who is not a Fruit Lover, I personally wished that they had got further with Gnash, a free Flash implementation. I hoped it would open up Flash Development with all the positives without the down sides.
The bottom Line is Linus is so Amazing
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So I guess by the same metric, Android isn't Linux either. It is called GNU/Linux, not GNU Linux, the difference being that it is the mix of both tools, not saying that Linux comes from GNU.
Re: (Score:3)
Calling it GNU/Linux is suggesting that Linux is just as much a part of the GNU project, as much as gcc, flex, bison, bash, gawk, gdb, and other tools. It is not. It's Linux... not GNU/Linux... the prefix was added by people who simply got tired of waiting for Hurd when Linux did everything that they wanted, and serendipitously was also released under the GPL, but it was not ever part of the GNU project, so GNU/Linux is as much of a misnomer as BSD Linux (since Linux can be distributed with BSD tools ins
Re: (Score:1)
"the prefix was added by people who simply got tired of waiting for Hurd"
Wrong : the prefix was added by Richard Stallman himself, who wanted people to remember that if Linus Torvalds did the kernel, GNU built the ecosystem it resides in.
I heard him in person saying this in a speech over 10 years ago.
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I never heard RMS talk about GNU/Minix; I did about GNU/Linux
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Just because RMS makes up the notion that Linux is somehow part of the GNU project doesn't make it so.
Let's try a car analogy.... I might manufacture almost all of the parts for an an automobile body, but when somebody else puts those pieces together into a single car, the car is still branded with *their* name... not mine.
Redhat Linux, Slackware Linux, Debian Linux, Gentoo Linux, Ubuntu Linux.... these are all reasonable. GNU, however... does not construct their own distribution of Linux, so GNU/Linu
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RMS is incorrect. It is no more important for Linux than it is for Minix, which was also built with gcc.
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Are you sure that after you read the facts - you come to that conclusion? I suppose if you have a Freightliner brand semi truck, and a Acme123 Diesel Engine product as the engine - you say you have a Acme123 truck?
You also know you can run Debian(and friends) on a Linux kernel, FreeBSD kernel, or Hurd kernel - with the same user land tools? That's because of GNU! Any of those kernels on their own would be crippled without the incredible suite of userland tools GNU provides. The idea that you don't want to g
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Re:Name me some quality Apache products (Score:5, Informative)
Solr, hadoop, activemq?
Seriously.
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Hadoop was based on Google code. Solr was based on CNET's code. I can't really think of much that has come out of the Apache Foundation that is 100% homegrown open source and has a steady, active, mature development cycle. Instead it's all fluff and it just feels like to me that unless you're one of the top 20 Open Source software projects out there, that nothing new is coming across.
Anyone else wonder if this has something to do with App Markets and the ease of which one can make money?
Re: (Score:2)
Anyone else wonder if this has something to do with App Markets and the ease of which one can make money?
I'm not sure it can all be blamed on app markets, but in part that could have an effect. In that scenario, given that the code is free the ability to make money is really based on marketing. People will pay a couple of dollars to save them the hassle of pulling down the source, building it on their PC and then uploading that to their phones but anybody can do that and in the end the best marketer will win out. Of course then there is also the person who is happy to publish the binary for free (no cost) whic
Re: (Score:2)
Of all of the complaints which could be levelled at the Apache Foundation, this one has to be the least relevant. One of the roles that TAF plays is as a place where you can send your code (as long as it's useful and falls under their purview) to ensure that it's looked after.
Re:Name me some quality Apache products (Score:5, Informative)
Granted, not all of these are of the highest quality, but it may jog your memory of a few projects which are used in high demand environments everyday.
Re:Name me some quality Apache products (Score:5, Informative)
ActiveMQ, Ant, Avro, Cassandra, Derby, Geronimo, HBase, Hive, Hadoop, JMeter, Lucene, Maven, Pig, Solr, Subversion, Thrift, Tomcat, Zookeeper.
Don't underestimate the impact Apache has had.
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ActiveMQ, Ant, Avro, Cassandra, Derby, Geronimo, HBase, Hive, Hadoop, JMeter, Lucene, Maven, Pig, Solr, Subversion, Thrift, Tomcat, Zookeeper.
Don't underestimate the impact Apache has had.
Subversion was originally tigris.org. Geronimo and Derby were IBM products (all donated). Also log4j.
Apache has developed or adopted more products than I can count. OpenJPA, Apache Commons, Axis, CXF, Velocity, Struts. The list goes on and on.
Re: (Score:2)
Subversion was originally tigris.org. Geronimo and Derby were IBM products (all donated). Also log4j.
Apache has developed or adopted more products than I can count. OpenJPA, Apache Commons, Axis, CXF, Velocity, Struts. The list goes on and on.
That's part of what they do — provide umbrella support for projects with things like hosting, governance, legal and stuff like that. They're clear indicators of success, of impact. Coding isn't the only thing that a project needs. (FWIW, CXF has definitely been developed quite a bit since adoption.)
Re: Name me some quality Apache products (Score:1)
Tomcat slow, unreliable and fat? Runs in 12MiB heap, competes in performance with httpd and has never, ever crashed in the 32 server-years we have had it running in production. If you werent able to get it to work, it was probably your buggy application.
Re: (Score:1, Informative)
Ant, OpenOffice, HTTPD - all of which are best-in-class for serious use. Of course, there are other options for people who like playing with toys that resemble tools adults use.
Re: (Score:3)
OpenOffice is a good alternative, but by no means best in class. Maybe it is the only serious solution on Linux and that is a different thing. Best in class in that area is still Microsoft Office by a long shot, hell and even Corel WordPerfect Office, since it has some really cool PDF editing tools in the word processor itself.
But other than that, I think Apache is doing great, even if I never was a Java fan. They have very interesting projects like Nutch/Solr, Traffic Server and by being the main bastion o
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Yeah, I guess I feel the same way.
Of the projects that folks have mentioned, there are a few that I would have considered using at one time, but none that I would choose to use, today.
All in all, it has seemed like Apache is where projects go to die for a long time, now.
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