Or they could work on policies that reward significant improvement throughout the year. A rough start can be just that. Mandating that everything is at least 50%, even when a student gets a 0%, is a terrible idea.
Really, I have no problem with a "lousy start" policy of some sort, but to guarantee 50% while other students are giving and earning 100% annoys me to no end. How about simply this, guarantee that all quizzes and tests can be made up after hours (before/after class) that were taken in the first half of the semester for a maximum score of 80% of the total points awarded (gotta at least give a small late bloomer penalty)? Higher of the 2 scores will apply. Thoughts there?
Cool, now if I'm really good in that subject (math comes to mind), I can just skip the entire first half of each semester and still get a B in the class!
Ever taken a math class... generally you can't skip the first half (fundamentals) and pass the second half (more advanced stuff). And while that might not motivate students to "be your best!", if the student is smart enough to pull that off... well I guess being smart does have benefits!
On a good day I would half-ass pay attention in my math classes and never bothered doing homework unless it had serious potential for affecting my grades. All honors classes, all tests aced.
This 50% minimum is bull shit any way you slice it. Sure, give the kids a chance to fix-up their fuck-ups by getting with the program and doing the work, although late, but don't give them grades better than the shitty one they earned. There are no breaks like that after they get to the real world, it will only hurt them later in life if they learn to expect them.
An F is an F, (or an E is an E, according to the article). They still show as failing, they still fail, but now they actually have a chance to start trying. If you were in a class and had gotten 10% or something ridiculous like that, then you got your life together, decided to start trying in school and catching up, how would it be to be unable to pass the class because you'd average less than 60%? These kids won't pass unless they actually do the work. It doesn't take anything away from the smarter or hard
Did you miss the "give the kids a chance to fix-up their fuck-ups by getting with the program and doing the work, although late" part of my previous post?
I'm not advocating dooming them to hell for whatever reason they did shitty in the first semester, but rather making them work harder to correct the error. If they don't learn that they have to work harder, they will be stuck with jobs that make minimum wage look like CEO pay compared to what they will be able to get.
They'd have to work harder than their first semester either way. The point is that at a certain point (which was given as 20 percent), you'd have to get 100% on everything to even pass. Nobody is really expected to do 100%. Sure, some kids are able to do it, but it can't be an expectation. As for the comment about jobs that make minimum wage look like CEO pay compared to what they will be able to get, I suppose you could find work for under minimum wage, somewhere, but it's minimum for a reason. Even mental
The place I worked for in Boston leased a bit of warehouse space at the company that packs a lot of Gilette's products. The majority of the people that did the packing were mentally handicapped, a small number were physically handicapped. Some of them had their little quirks, but a harder, more dedicated bunch of workers you couldn't find anywhere.
For a student who gets the minimum of 50 during the first quarter to pass, s/he has to get a 70 the second quarter. To get to a 70 average, (obviously a grade
In college, many of the professors had a "come to jesus" (metaphorically... they were often atheists) meeting with failing students, and would many times provide them the opportunity to re-take a test after studying to earn back up to half of the points they missed the first time around. So, if you got a 20%, you could kick your grade up to a 60% total if you studied and re-took the test. If you got a 50%, it could be a 75%. I think they may have made a max grade, too... my memory's fuzzy. It's been a w
An F is an F, (or an E is an E, according to the article). They still show as failing, they still fail, but now they actually have a chance to start trying. If you were in a class and had gotten 10% or something ridiculous like that, then you got your life together, decided to start trying in school and catching up, how would it be to be unable to pass the class because you'd average less than 60%?
So do like my college does; give lower weighting to early assignments, higher weighting to later assignments (the first assignment on my current module counted for, IIRC, 5% of my coursework total; the last assignment for 35%). That way, students who are caught out at the beginning of a course by the standard of work required (and it's happened to me) aren't much penalised; as long as they get it together before the end of the course they can pull their grades up.
If you were in a class and had gotten 10% or something ridiculous like that, then you got your life together, decided to start trying in school and catching up, how would it be to be unable to pass the class because you'd average less than 60%?
Hey, these are public schools. Aren't we all investors in these children? I say we demand a return on our investment, like any good investor would. If someone is given an opportunity (the average per-student spending is around $7-14K per year, depending on the state),
While math and statistics aren't needed for programming, how about for looking at the raw numbers and deciding where you want your program and analysis to start at.
Giving your change a quick once over at the store. I ran across a cashier once that was so stupid she gave me more change than the money I gave her in the first place to pay for my groceries.
How about figuring the proper tip to give when you dine out. I really don't like having to carry around gadgets like calculators when I go places.
LOL No. First, butt ugly would have won beauty prizes compared to this girl. Second, I was married to a complete lunatic at the time, she even had the paperwork to prove it.
Pardon me, but... LOL WUT? Lady Ada and Messr's Babbage, Turing and Godel would like to talk to you before they beat you up and leave you for dead in a bad neighborhood.
No, the poster is right. I know many programmers who ahve weak math skills, but don't really need them for the type of programming they do. That's fine. In fact, I would rather have those application written by someone who was an English major and some software training. Seriously, they will write documentation, and there code will probably be more maintainable.
There is also programming that requires heavy math skills.
Th days of needing to calculate memory and disk storage are long gone for much of the softwa
You don't need what most people consider mathematics to program well. Yes, you are using logic, and logic is math, but most people don't think of it that way.
In the same way, most people don't consider cooking to be chemistry, but it is. Does this mean that all cooks should be good chemists or vice-versa? No.
Had a need to solve a cubic equation at work lately?
Surprisingly, Yes
Even programming needs zero math skills.
*snort* yeah right. Though I will admit my usage of calculus is limited.
Still, it's often the Meta learning, the learning how to learn, the reading comprehension, the process of solving problems, that are useful.
It's not everyday use, but I DO use a lot of my middle school education on occasion. High school? Programming skills, english. The history is good to know on occasion. For example, with
"There are no breaks like that after they get to the real world"
You really ahve no grasp of the real world if you really believe that.
Here is an idea, how about some sort of logical counter point to why they are doing this instead of some emotional responce?
This is a good thing in all practical manners. 1) Helps prevent drop outs. 2) Lets kids who realize they were slacking off get it together. 3) It's HS. An opportunity to learn from mistakes and still pass is a good thing. 4) This will not allow for 'skating'
Maybe they should drop out, and allow us to spend taxpayer resources on students who actually want to learn. If they later decide they do want to learn, they can always come back, and always make up the material.
2) Lets kids who realize they were slacking off get it together.
And reduces the consequences of slacking off in the first place, because they know that they can always just put in a "good effort" later and everyone will just pass them along through the education system. Me
Disobedience: The silver lining to the cloud of servitude.
-- Ambrose Bierce
Or more reasonable policies (Score:5, Insightful)
Or they could work on policies that reward significant improvement throughout the year. A rough start can be just that. Mandating that everything is at least 50%, even when a student gets a 0%, is a terrible idea.
Re: (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: (Score:4, Insightful)
Cool, now if I'm really good in that subject (math comes to mind), I can just skip the entire first half of each semester and still get a B in the class!
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Or more reasonable policies (Score:4, Insightful)
On a good day I would half-ass pay attention in my math classes and never bothered doing homework unless it had serious potential for affecting my grades. All honors classes, all tests aced.
This 50% minimum is bull shit any way you slice it. Sure, give the kids a chance to fix-up their fuck-ups by getting with the program and doing the work, although late, but don't give them grades better than the shitty one they earned. There are no breaks like that after they get to the real world, it will only hurt them later in life if they learn to expect them.
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:1)
Did you miss the "give the kids a chance to fix-up their fuck-ups by getting with the program and doing the work, although late" part of my previous post?
I'm not advocating dooming them to hell for whatever reason they did shitty in the first semester, but rather making them work harder to correct the error. If they don't learn that they have to work harder, they will be stuck with jobs that make minimum wage look like CEO pay compared to what they will be able to get.
It's this kind of coddling shit that g
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
The place I worked for in Boston leased a bit of warehouse space at the company that packs a lot of Gilette's products. The majority of the people that did the packing were mentally handicapped, a small number were physically handicapped. Some of them had their little quirks, but a harder, more dedicated bunch of workers you couldn't find anywhere.
For a student who gets the minimum of 50 during the first quarter to pass, s/he has to get a 70 the second quarter. To get to a 70 average, (obviously a grade
Re: (Score:2)
In college, many of the professors had a "come to jesus" (metaphorically... they were often atheists) meeting with failing students, and would many times provide them the opportunity to re-take a test after studying to earn back up to half of the points they missed the first time around. So, if you got a 20%, you could kick your grade up to a 60% total if you studied and re-took the test. If you got a 50%, it could be a 75%. I think they may have made a max grade, too... my memory's fuzzy. It's been a w
Re: (Score:2)
An F is an F, (or an E is an E, according to the article). They still show as failing, they still fail, but now they actually have a chance to start trying. If you were in a class and had gotten 10% or something ridiculous like that, then you got your life together, decided to start trying in school and catching up, how would it be to be unable to pass the class because you'd average less than 60%?
So do like my college does; give lower weighting to early assignments, higher weighting to later assignments (the first assignment on my current module counted for, IIRC, 5% of my coursework total; the last assignment for 35%). That way, students who are caught out at the beginning of a course by the standard of work required (and it's happened to me) aren't much penalised; as long as they get it together before the end of the course they can pull their grades up.
Re: (Score:2)
If you were in a class and had gotten 10% or something ridiculous like that, then you got your life together, decided to start trying in school and catching up, how would it be to be unable to pass the class because you'd average less than 60%?
Hey, these are public schools. Aren't we all investors in these children? I say we demand a return on our investment, like any good investor would. If someone is given an opportunity (the average per-student spending is around $7-14K per year, depending on the state),
Re: (Score:1)
While math and statistics aren't needed for programming, how about for looking at the raw numbers and deciding where you want your program and analysis to start at.
Giving your change a quick once over at the store. I ran across a cashier once that was so stupid she gave me more change than the money I gave her in the first place to pay for my groceries.
How about figuring the proper tip to give when you dine out. I really don't like having to carry around gadgets like calculators when I go places.
Quickly k
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That's hardly surprising. Most married people have the paperwork to prove it.
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I was talking about the paperwork to prove she was a lunatic
Though with her having that paperwork, the marriage license probably proves that I'm a bit nuts as well
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I know ^_^ Perhaps my sense of humour was a bit too deadpan there...
Re:Or more reasonable policies (Score:5, Funny)
Pardon me, but... LOL WUT? Lady Ada and Messr's Babbage, Turing and Godel would like to talk to you before they beat you up and leave you for dead in a bad neighborhood.
Re: (Score:2)
Lady Ada and Messr's Babbage, Turing and Godel would like to talk to you before they beat you up and leave you for dead in a bad neighborhood.
Yeah, don't mess with mathematicians. They'll kick your asymptote.
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No, the poster is right.
I know many programmers who ahve weak math skills, but don't really need them for the type of programming they do. That's fine.
In fact, I would rather have those application written by someone who was an English major and some software training. Seriously, they will write documentation, and there code will probably be more maintainable.
There is also programming that requires heavy math skills.
Th days of needing to calculate memory and disk storage are long gone for much of the softwa
Re: (Score:2)
You don't need what most people consider mathematics to program well. Yes, you are using logic, and logic is math, but most people don't think of it that way.
In the same way, most people don't consider cooking to be chemistry, but it is. Does this mean that all cooks should be good chemists or vice-versa? No.
Re: (Score:2)
Had a need to solve a cubic equation at work lately?
Surprisingly, Yes
Even programming needs zero math skills.
*snort* yeah right. Though I will admit my usage of calculus is limited.
Still, it's often the Meta learning, the learning how to learn, the reading comprehension, the process of solving problems, that are useful.
It's not everyday use, but I DO use a lot of my middle school education on occasion. High school? Programming skills, english. The history is good to know on occasion. For example, with
Re: (Score:2)
"There are no breaks like that after they get to the real world"
You really ahve no grasp of the real world if you really believe that.
Here is an idea, how about some sort of logical counter point to why they are doing this instead of some emotional responce?
This is a good thing in all practical manners.
1) Helps prevent drop outs.
2) Lets kids who realize they were slacking off get it together.
3) It's HS. An opportunity to learn from mistakes and still pass is a good thing.
4) This will not allow for 'skating'
Re: (Score:2)
1) Helps prevent drop outs.
Maybe they should drop out, and allow us to spend taxpayer resources on students who actually want to learn. If they later decide they do want to learn, they can always come back, and always make up the material.
2) Lets kids who realize they were slacking off get it together.
And reduces the consequences of slacking off in the first place, because they know that they can always just put in a "good effort" later and everyone will just pass them along through the education system. Me