Or they could work on policies that reward significant improvement throughout the year. A rough start can be just that. Mandating that everything is at least 50%, even when a student gets a 0%, is a terrible idea.
Really, I have no problem with a "lousy start" policy of some sort, but to guarantee 50% while other students are giving and earning 100% annoys me to no end. How about simply this, guarantee that all quizzes and tests can be made up after hours (before/after class) that were taken in the first half of the semester for a maximum score of 80% of the total points awarded (gotta at least give a small late bloomer penalty)? Higher of the 2 scores will apply. Thoughts there?
Cool, now if I'm really good in that subject (math comes to mind), I can just skip the entire first half of each semester and still get a B in the class!
Ever taken a math class... generally you can't skip the first half (fundamentals) and pass the second half (more advanced stuff). And while that might not motivate students to "be your best!", if the student is smart enough to pull that off... well I guess being smart does have benefits!
In my high school, there was a kid in the class that graduated the year before my class came in as freshman who only showed up to classes for quizes and tests all four years. He graduated with a B or B- average.
After he graduated and it was brought to the attention of parents and school administrators, a new rule was put in place that any student absent from a class more than a certain number of days during the year (I think it was 20 or so) for any reason could (at the discretion of the teacher) be failed.
In my high school, there was a kid in the class that graduated the year before my class came in as freshman who only showed up to classes for quizes and tests all four years. He graduated with a B or B- average.
That's not an example of a school failing to challenge a student. That's an example of a lazy student. Maybe he's a smart slacker, but at the end of the day, he's still just a slacker. What the hell does it matter if he's smart if he won't apply himself?
As Edison said, genius is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration. You'll get much further in life being moderately smart and really hardworking, than extraordinarily brilliant but too lazy to do anything with your intelligence.
But why should you work hard at school if you can get by like this? I know of no school that has the time and resources to challenge students like that one. If I were him I'd be somewhere else than at school too, working on problems that interest and challenge me. Who says this kid was doing nothing while not at school?
Because there might be some reason to achieve a little bit more than "getting by"? At school certainly there is a big incentive to put in a little bit of effort to get top marks rather than just passing, because if you're one of the people who can do that you're probably going to carry on to university. It reminds me a lot of the stories you see every year around exam results time about some 12yr old getting a C in A-level maths or whatever. I am not impressed, either a) get top marks, or b) don't take the
I am not impressed, either a) get top marks, or b) don't take the exam early, you're not clever enough.
Working on the reasonable assuption that he didn't know what grade he was going to get in advance, maybe he thought he was going to get an A? Even a C is more than most people will get, at any age. Indeed, it's what I got.
My actual grades were way off the predictions - some over, some under.
I know of no school that has the time and resources to challenge students like that one.
If the school doesn't have "gifted and talented" or "advanced placement" classes (and they should), or if those aren't challenging enough, skip the kid up a grade. Or two. Or send him off for classes at the local community college.
He got a B. clearly he could ahve applied himself more. Or taken harder courses. Or taken college courses. If school is truly easy for you, you have many opportunities.
What if the school is the highest you can go to? And what is the reward for getting an A instead of a B? Nothing, except in the final exams, because you have a better chance of getting on the university you want with A's on your final tests. If you can get a B with doing nothing in the classes before the last class, I take it you can get A's in the exams, and that's what counts.
That's not an example of a school failing to challenge a student. That's an example of a lazy student. Maybe he's a smart slacker, but at the end of the day, he's still just a slacker. What the hell does it matter if he's smart if he won't apply himself?
Depends on what the student is doing when not at school, of course.
If he's off writing software (or a novel), or doing original research, everyone involved is far better off with him not being there.
Even when young, there are more things in life than school,
Like anything else, college is what you make of it. A decent state university, even without a big name, provides a fine education if one takes advantage of what it has to offer; one just needs to be more on top of things by way of networking than would necessarily be the case elsewhere.
(I speak from experience, having gone to one of the better schools in the CSU system -- while another school I was considering certainly had more big-name appeal, faculty at the CSU school deigned to give me the time of day when touring as a prospective student; my decision was made between that and economic factors, and I've not regretted it once).
SO? how can you not regret it if you didn't go to the other school, your school fails logic.
I could regret it if I saw things I was missing out on in life because I didn't have those contacts. I don't. (As an aside, your school fails grammar).
Contacts from school got me my first job working next door to big-name kernel hackers Paul Mundt and Robert Love. Sure, I had to do some work to get to know the right people to make those contacts -- where at a more prestigious school they might have come free with the
Imagine you were put in a classroom with a load of infants chanting basic sums "2 plus 2 is 4, 2 plus 3 is 5" etc.
When there is no purpose in you being there how long before you get so sick of it that you stop turning up?
That isn't lazyness. Lazyness is being unwilling to work. The "work" in this case is learing math and if he already knew all the material that well then it just means he did all the "work" long before everyone else.
I hardly turn up for any classes at uni, if it's not mandatory. I find it extremely boring to sit through a lecture that takes two hours which I could read up on at home in half the time. sitting through a lecture has so much resistance - getting to uni, sifting through the crowd, all the chattering going on during the lecture, etc etc. waste of time.
Depends on how you learn. Many people simply can't learn from just reading... their brains aren't wired that way. And that's assuming that the books are any good to start with... I know that many times in my engineering classes the instructor would go on a tangent about something that was quite important, but wasn't in the book, or was just glossed over in the book. And by going to class, you learn what you're going to be tested on.
I fail to see how he was supposed to "apply" himself. He clearly had already completely mastered the material if he was able to get the A's he obviously needed to pass with a B average only taking the exams.
News flash here maybe, but sitting in a seat listening to things you already know hardly constitutes "applying" yourself.
Hrmmm.... with the permission of my teachers I often skipped class and maintained straight A's. I went to less than 20 days of my AP Calc class.
I spent the spare time studying for Academic Bowl, Academic Decathlon, the Chess Team, and lifting weights...
I would rather have spent that time taking more advanced courses but due to interesting restrictions on what and where classes were to be attended I had to show up and allow the teachers an opportunity to be complicit in working around the 'system'.
Disobedience: The silver lining to the cloud of servitude.
-- Ambrose Bierce
Or more reasonable policies (Score:5, Insightful)
Or they could work on policies that reward significant improvement throughout the year. A rough start can be just that. Mandating that everything is at least 50%, even when a student gets a 0%, is a terrible idea.
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Cool, now if I'm really good in that subject (math comes to mind), I can just skip the entire first half of each semester and still get a B in the class!
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In my high school, there was a kid in the class that graduated the year before my class came in as freshman who only showed up to classes for quizes and tests all four years. He graduated with a B or B- average.
After he graduated and it was brought to the attention of parents and school administrators, a new rule was put in place that any student absent from a class more than a certain number of days during the year (I think it was 20 or so) for any reason could (at the discretion of the teacher) be failed.
Re:Or more reasonable policies (Score:4, Insightful)
That's not an example of a school failing to challenge a student. That's an example of a lazy student. Maybe he's a smart slacker, but at the end of the day, he's still just a slacker. What the hell does it matter if he's smart if he won't apply himself?
As Edison said, genius is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration. You'll get much further in life being moderately smart and really hardworking, than extraordinarily brilliant but too lazy to do anything with your intelligence.
Re:Or more reasonable policies (Score:5, Insightful)
But why should you work hard at school if you can get by like this? I know of no school that has the time and resources to challenge students like that one. If I were him I'd be somewhere else than at school too, working on problems that interest and challenge me. Who says this kid was doing nothing while not at school?
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Working on the reasonable assuption that he didn't know what grade he was going to get in advance, maybe he thought he was going to get an A? Even a C is more than most people will get, at any age. Indeed, it's what I got.
My actual grades were way off the predictions - some over, some under.
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If the school doesn't have "gifted and talented" or "advanced placement" classes (and they should), or if those aren't challenging enough, skip the kid up a grade. Or two. Or send him off for classes at the local community college.
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He got a B. clearly he could ahve applied himself more. Or taken harder courses. Or taken college courses. If school is truly easy for you, you have many opportunities.
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What if the school is the highest you can go to? And what is the reward for getting an A instead of a B? Nothing, except in the final exams, because you have a better chance of getting on the university you want with A's on your final tests. If you can get a B with doing nothing in the classes before the last class, I take it you can get A's in the exams, and that's what counts.
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Depends on what the student is doing when not at school, of course.
If he's off writing software (or a novel), or doing original research, everyone involved is far better off with him not being there.
Even when young, there are more things in life than school,
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Sadly - given that he had only a B - which college given his potential would have taken him ? MIT ? Caltech ? Berkley ? I think not.
Re:Or more reasonable policies (Score:4, Insightful)
Like anything else, college is what you make of it. A decent state university, even without a big name, provides a fine education if one takes advantage of what it has to offer; one just needs to be more on top of things by way of networking than would necessarily be the case elsewhere.
(I speak from experience, having gone to one of the better schools in the CSU system -- while another school I was considering certainly had more big-name appeal, faculty at the CSU school deigned to give me the time of day when touring as a prospective student; my decision was made between that and economic factors, and I've not regretted it once).
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"and I've not regretted it once"
SO? how can you not regret it if you didn't go to the other school, your school fails logic.
That said, the reason to go to widly known schools is for contacts to be used later in your career.
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Where did you go? I'm a California State University Long Beach alum.
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I could regret it if I saw things I was missing out on in life because I didn't have those contacts. I don't. (As an aside, your school fails grammar).
Contacts from school got me my first job working next door to big-name kernel hackers Paul Mundt and Robert Love. Sure, I had to do some work to get to know the right people to make those contacts -- where at a more prestigious school they might have come free with the
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Imagine you were put in a classroom with a load of infants chanting basic sums "2 plus 2 is 4, 2 plus 3 is 5" etc.
When there is no purpose in you being there how long before you get so sick of it that you stop turning up?
That isn't lazyness. Lazyness is being unwilling to work. The "work" in this case is learing math and if he already knew all the material that well then it just means he did all the "work" long before everyone else.
I hope to god you're not a teacher.
I slept through most of my 1st year compu
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bah!
*learning not learing
*science not sciene
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Depends on how you learn. Many people simply can't learn from just reading... their brains aren't wired that way. And that's assuming that the books are any good to start with... I know that many times in my engineering classes the instructor would go on a tangent about something that was quite important, but wasn't in the book, or was just glossed over in the book. And by going to class, you learn what you're going to be tested on.
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As Edison said, genius is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration.
Which is why engineers sometime smell really bad. [despair.com]
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> As Edison said, genius is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration
I feel sorry for the poor person that had to do Edison's laundry.
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I fail to see how he was supposed to "apply" himself. He clearly had already completely mastered the material if he was able to get the A's he obviously needed to pass with a B average only taking the exams.
News flash here maybe, but sitting in a seat listening to things you already know hardly constitutes "applying" yourself.
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Hrmmm.... with the permission of my teachers I often skipped class and maintained straight A's. I went to less than 20 days of my AP Calc class.
I spent the spare time studying for Academic Bowl, Academic Decathlon, the Chess Team, and lifting weights...
I would rather have spent that time taking more advanced courses but due to interesting restrictions on what and where classes were to be attended I had to show up and allow the teachers an opportunity to be complicit in working around the 'system'.