Or they could work on policies that reward significant improvement throughout the year. A rough start can be just that. Mandating that everything is at least 50%, even when a student gets a 0%, is a terrible idea.
Really, I have no problem with a "lousy start" policy of some sort, but to guarantee 50% while other students are giving and earning 100% annoys me to no end. How about simply this, guarantee that all quizzes and tests can be made up after hours (before/after class) that were taken in the first half of the semester for a maximum score of 80% of the total points awarded (gotta at least give a small late bloomer penalty)? Higher of the 2 scores will apply. Thoughts there?
Cool, now if I'm really good in that subject (math comes to mind), I can just skip the entire first half of each semester and still get a B in the class!
Cool, now if I'm really good in that subject (math comes to mind), I can just skip the entire first half of each semester and still get a B in the class!
Um, if you're that good at math, why would you settle for a B, and why wouldn't you deserve at least that high of a grade anyway, in recognition of your talent?
I'm not sure how to relate to somebody who can't see themselves as teenagers looking to have fun. I know I can speak for my self in regards to the fact that I spent most of my time in high school in accelerated classes but earning B's and C's because I was too busy going out and enjoying life. Looking for rationalizations from teenagers as to why one would settle for a "B' is ignoring what it means to be young.
Um, if you're that good at math, why would you settle for a B, and why wouldn't you deserve at least that high of a grade anyway, in recognition of your talent?
Unless you are looking for somebody else's approval you can settle for any grade you are comfortable with.
I barely studied in school and college and did just the minimum required to pass unless I was really interested in the topic (barely passed calculus, physics, aced electronics, programming, telecommunications)
"no one after you get your first college admission" well then, that why sinh't it? Also scholarships. And it doesn't take 10 times the effort for this magic made for Hollywood student who gets a B without ever studying. I wonder what he was doing when he wasn't at school? Tutors? special education? I was a slacker who got a B, but I showed up most of the time. If the surf was good I wouldn't go.
You obviously never attended any of the classes I did. The homework was a joke, was identical to the tests, made you did identical problems dozens of times consecutively, and cannot possibly determine the intelligence of an individual student unless they're friendless. In fact, come to think of it, I was the only one who ever worked alone on assignments in any of my classes. Everyone, prep to goth, worked together with peers, worked on problems at lunch tables together, worked in study halls together, etc.
Um, if you're that good at math, why would you settle for a B, and why wouldn't you deserve at least that high of a grade anyway, in recognition of your talent?
Because you value your time more? My experience (as a teacher) is that effort doubles between grades. So a D is twice as much effort to get as an F and a C is four times as much effort. I don't have a problem with some students recognizing that they don't want to spend lots of time on everything and making some cost/benefit decisions.
My experience (as a teacher) is that effort doubles between grades. So a D is twice as much effort to get as an F
Making the assumption that you can earn an F with 0 effort, and then following your logic...
an F is 0 effort => a D is 0 effort => a C is 0 effort => a B is 0 effort => an A is zero effort.
So you're an easy teacher. QED.
...why wouldn't you deserve at least that high of a grade anyway, in recognition of your talent?
Since everyone else focused on the "settle for a B" part in their replies, I'll take this clause.
What world do you come from where you "deserve" a certain grade in high school "in recognition of your talent"?!!? If high school was like some college courses, sure, you could just "show 'em the talent" in the form of your score on some monstrous final exam. Grades in high school, for the last century at least,
no high school I've heard of has EVER had cumulative tests (that is, that all the later tests covered all the material in the earlier tests)
How can you do calculus without knowing fundamental algebra? How can you write a short story in a foreign language without knowing the conjugations, declensions and all that basic grammtical malarkey that you sat and chanted four grades before?
The earlier stuff might not be explicitly asked, but it's there.
Huh? I don't know about your country, but in Poland nobody actually cares if you got your degree with an A or barely got it. All that matters is if it's there, and from what university it is.
Here in the US Grades are important fro scholarships, intern opportunities, and how high up the ladder you can start your first job at. So good high school grades (age 13-17 give or take) can get you into college, and possible a scholarship. College 18-22 and beyond! It can get you a better job. Or course having good social skills help as well.
In a country where it is become very expensive to even attend a local college, this stuff matters.
We're talking about High School here (years 9-12 in the US). Good grades are needed to get into a good college (grades 13-16), but once you graduate college no one is going to give a hoot what your grades were in High School, and only look at your grades in colleges. To go further and get a Masters/PhD, then your ungraduate grades don't matter, etc.
Because he/she is smart enough to realize that grades matter exactly 0 after you get your first job anyway? Because he/she is smart enough to realize the field they intend to go into doesn't depend on having a A in math?
There are plenty of reasons not to waste your time doing something and being 'good enough'. Thats why, although I can cook, I don't bake my own bread. I'm good enough at cooking for most of my needs and I have baked bread in the past, but I specialize in other things and let someone else make far better bread that I can buy for a price less than the cost of making it myself.
But in reality, when I was in highschool, I did this exact same thing, IN honors classes. I did it because it was far more enjoyable for me to 'get by' and go half fun out side of school than it was to sit in some class listening to some teacher drone on about shit that he/she barely understands better than I do. I know its an odd concept, but kids are thinking about having fun and a social life, not their career. Well okay, the balanced kids are, there were kids who only cared about school work, had the best grades, all that stuff that makes you the most likely to be someone great. The valedictorian at my highschool went off to Yale, and returned less than a year later because she got knocked up by the first guy who looked at her. The salutatorian went to the University of Florida, only to be kicked out after the first semester because she became a total drunkard. They had absolutely flawless grades, but 0 social skills which resulted in the not lasting the first year, now last I heard they both live back in the town we grew up in, with several kids and basic, meaningless jobs. Theres more to succeeding in life than school.
Actually, you may be touching on something interesting here.
"Getting an A" was remarked to require some 8 times the effort as getting say a "C". But in the business world, "Effort" = "Labor Salaries".
Microsoft seems to have perfected the art of releasing their Grade C-Minus work as "Version 1.0" to get market share, scrape-by sales, open logistics channels, etc.
Then they literally buy themselves another chunk of years to (sometimes) get out a B-Plus version. "Version 3.11". I understand popular wisdom to b
IMNSHO You are quite right about this and I speak as one of those with good grades at school/UNI. Parents an teachers tell you it is all about the grades well that is just not true. Social skills are far more important than grades or qualifications for that matter.
My social skills are not terrible but I did not get a good balance and as a result this has probably affected my career negatively more than my qualifications have helped.
My advice is you need a good balance and I'll try not to make the same mis
I actually found the valedictorians/salutatorians at my school to be quite social.
Yes, at my school also, the valedictorian and salutatorian status were often rewarded more on social status than grades. I mean you could have 5% of the class get straight As but you can only have one valedictorian and one salutatorian (well, now I guess they have a whole bucketload of each, but this was 20 years ago), so they did have to get good grades, but they definitely would choose the one that was in the most social c
But in reality, when I was in highschool, I did this exact same thing, IN honors classes. I did it because it was far more enjoyable for me to 'get by' and go half fun out side of school than it was to sit in some class listening to some teacher drone on about shit that he/she barely understands better than I do.
You didn't point out a spelling or grammar mistake.
You pointed out the use of the wrong word on a post that was made at 4:43am. Perhaps being tired had a little bit to do with it.
You could have also pointed out the legitimate grammar errors in the post rather than the obvious typos. At least if you are going to be pedantic do it properly.
There, now you have 2 new posts from me to critize even though you understood them completely. Good thing neither one of us has anything better to do then talk about gra
The valedictorian at my highschool went off to Yale, and returned less than a year later because she got knocked up by the first guy who looked at her.
I guess that A she got in health class didn't result in a whole lot of practical knowledge of birth control.
If it makes you feel any better, the valedictorian at my wife's high school dated football players, got straight As in college in its highly-selective honors program, got a job in banking, and then married a total slacking loser. I really have no idea what the fuck she was thinking when she married me.
Maybe she too realized there was more to life than perfect grades, and married someone who was fun to be with so when she gets home she can enjoy life:)
On a different note, now that you meantion it, I don't remember any sort of birth control meantioned in school at all. I probably wouldn't have heard about the pill, but I don't remember anyone mentioning condoms either.
On that note though, by the time they got around to talking about sex, we pretty much all knew the deal. I certainly wasn't active, but I was the guy who told his friends to use condoms so they didn't end up as a daddy ( which, they didn't, so they did ).
On a different note, now that you meantion it, I don't remember any sort of birth control meantioned in school at all.
I don't know where you went to school, but I learned about condoms and the pill (and possibly others... it was a long time ago) in 7th grade, and learned about every single mainstream birth control method in 10th. Must have sunk in to some degree or another, because I did not become a father for the first time until age 29.
Not teaching kids about birth control is total insanity.
When I was a senior in high school, having observed how graduation and other end-of-year celebrations worked, I started jockeying for fourth or fifth (I forget) in class rank. This was the highest place that didn't involve having to make a speech.
Oh yes, because I know I gave a rats ass about my HS grades. Getting good grades in math sucks. I am good at math, but I learned early on I don't like number crunching when I have a computer that is very capable of doing it for me. I only need to know enough to "teach" the computer how to do the problems. Now, in reality, getting an A in an advanced math class involves "Do problems 1 - 50, show all of your work." Then realize that each problem takes a minimum of a 1/4 page of paper to show your work, a
The way our trig and calc homework was graded in high school was very discouraging, on top of, as you mentioned, taking obscene amounts of time (2-3 hours a day, if you didn't go back and check everything). Each assignment, no matter the length, was 5 points. Each problem that wasn't done, was incomplete, or had an error in it subtracted a point.
One minor calculation error in one of a set of 15 problems? Well, now you're at a 4/5 (80%, B-). Made two (you almost certainly did, since you didn't have anoth
Um, if you're that good at math, why would you settle for a B, and why wouldn't you deserve at least that high of a grade anyway, in recognition of your talent?
Clearly, they need to put that extra time in to English, so they can be properly understood when communicating on Slashdot...
Disobedience: The silver lining to the cloud of servitude.
-- Ambrose Bierce
Or more reasonable policies (Score:5, Insightful)
Or they could work on policies that reward significant improvement throughout the year. A rough start can be just that. Mandating that everything is at least 50%, even when a student gets a 0%, is a terrible idea.
Re: (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: (Score:4, Insightful)
Cool, now if I'm really good in that subject (math comes to mind), I can just skip the entire first half of each semester and still get a B in the class!
Re:Or more reasonable policies (Score:3, Insightful)
Um, if you're that good at math, why would you settle for a B, and why wouldn't you deserve at least that high of a grade anyway, in recognition of your talent?
Re: (Score:2)
I'm not sure how to relate to somebody who can't see themselves as teenagers looking to have fun. I know I can speak for my self in regards to the fact that I spent most of my time in high school in accelerated classes but earning B's and C's because I was too busy going out and enjoying life. Looking for rationalizations from teenagers as to why one would settle for a "B' is ignoring what it means to be young.
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
Um, if you're that good at math, why would you settle for a B, and why wouldn't you deserve at least that high of a grade anyway, in recognition of your talent?
Unless you are looking for somebody else's approval you can settle for any grade you are comfortable with.
I barely studied in school and college and did just the minimum required to pass unless I was really interested in the topic (barely passed calculus, physics, aced electronics, programming, telecommunications)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Because to get an A requires something like ten times the investment in effort and no one after you get your first college admission will give a hoot?
Re: (Score:2)
"no one after you get your first college admission"
well then, that why sinh't it?
Also scholarships. And it doesn't take 10 times the effort for this magic made for Hollywood student who gets a B without ever studying. I wonder what he was doing when he wasn't at school? Tutors? special education?
I was a slacker who got a B, but I showed up most of the time. If the surf was good I wouldn't go.
Re: (Score:2)
You obviously never attended any of the classes I did. The homework was a joke, was identical to the tests, made you did identical problems dozens of times consecutively, and cannot possibly determine the intelligence of an individual student unless they're friendless. In fact, come to think of it, I was the only one who ever worked alone on assignments in any of my classes. Everyone, prep to goth, worked together with peers, worked on problems at lunch tables together, worked in study halls together, etc.
W
Re:Or more reasonable policies (Score:4, Interesting)
Because you value your time more? My experience (as a teacher) is that effort doubles between grades. So a D is twice as much effort to get as an F and a C is four times as much effort. I don't have a problem with some students recognizing that they don't want to spend lots of time on everything and making some cost/benefit decisions.
-Grey [silverclipboard.com]
Re:Or more reasonable policies (Score:5, Funny)
My experience (as a teacher) is that effort doubles between grades. So a D is twice as much effort to get as an F
Making the assumption that you can earn an F with 0 effort, and then following your logic...
an F is 0 effort => a D is 0 effort => a C is 0 effort => a B is 0 effort => an A is zero effort.
So you're an easy teacher. QED.
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Are you also an ardent defendant of Zeno's Dichotomy?
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I hope you don't teach logic.
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Since everyone else focused on the "settle for a B" part in their replies, I'll take this clause.
What world do you come from where you "deserve" a certain grade in high school "in recognition of your talent"?!!? If high school was like some college courses, sure, you could just "show 'em the talent" in the form of your score on some monstrous final exam. Grades in high school, for the last century at least,
Re: (Score:2)
How can you do calculus without knowing fundamental algebra? How can you write a short story in a foreign language without knowing the conjugations, declensions and all that basic grammtical malarkey that you sat and chanted four grades before?
The earlier stuff might not be explicitly asked, but it's there.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
Here in the US Grades are important fro scholarships, intern opportunities, and how high up the ladder you can start your first job at.
So good high school grades (age 13-17 give or take) can get you into college, and possible a scholarship.
College 18-22 and beyond! It can get you a better job. Or course having good social skills help as well.
In a country where it is become very expensive to even attend a local college, this stuff matters.
Re: (Score:2)
We're talking about High School here (years 9-12 in the US). Good grades are needed to get into a good college (grades 13-16), but once you graduate college no one is going to give a hoot what your grades were in High School, and only look at your grades in colleges. To go further and get a Masters/PhD, then your ungraduate grades don't matter, etc.
Re:Or more reasonable policies (Score:5, Insightful)
Because he/she is smart enough to realize that grades matter exactly 0 after you get your first job anyway? Because he/she is smart enough to realize the field they intend to go into doesn't depend on having a A in math?
There are plenty of reasons not to waste your time doing something and being 'good enough'. Thats why, although I can cook, I don't bake my own bread. I'm good enough at cooking for most of my needs and I have baked bread in the past, but I specialize in other things and let someone else make far better bread that I can buy for a price less than the cost of making it myself.
But in reality, when I was in highschool, I did this exact same thing, IN honors classes. I did it because it was far more enjoyable for me to 'get by' and go half fun out side of school than it was to sit in some class listening to some teacher drone on about shit that he/she barely understands better than I do. I know its an odd concept, but kids are thinking about having fun and a social life, not their career. Well okay, the balanced kids are, there were kids who only cared about school work, had the best grades, all that stuff that makes you the most likely to be someone great. The valedictorian at my highschool went off to Yale, and returned less than a year later because she got knocked up by the first guy who looked at her. The salutatorian went to the University of Florida, only to be kicked out after the first semester because she became a total drunkard. They had absolutely flawless grades, but 0 social skills which resulted in the not lasting the first year, now last I heard they both live back in the town we grew up in, with several kids and basic, meaningless jobs. Theres more to succeeding in life than school.
Re: "Good Enough" (Score:2)
Actually, you may be touching on something interesting here.
"Getting an A" was remarked to require some 8 times the effort as getting say a "C". But in the business world, "Effort" = "Labor Salaries".
Microsoft seems to have perfected the art of releasing their Grade C-Minus work as "Version 1.0" to get market share, scrape-by sales, open logistics channels, etc.
Then they literally buy themselves another chunk of years to (sometimes) get out a B-Plus version. "Version 3.11". I understand popular wisdom to b
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Yes, at my school also, the valedictorian and salutatorian status were often rewarded more on social status than grades. I mean you could have 5% of the class get straight As but you can only have one valedictorian and one salutatorian (well, now I guess they have a whole bucketload of each, but this was 20 years ago), so they did have to get good grades, but they definitely would choose the one that was in the most social c
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Things like, lets say, spelling and grammar?
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Obviously, I failed english. True story.
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You didn't point out a spelling or grammar mistake.
You pointed out the use of the wrong word on a post that was made at 4:43am. Perhaps being tired had a little bit to do with it.
You could have also pointed out the legitimate grammar errors in the post rather than the obvious typos. At least if you are going to be pedantic do it properly.
There, now you have 2 new posts from me to critize even though you understood them completely. Good thing neither one of us has anything better to do then talk about gra
Re: (Score:1)
" I did this exact same thing, IN honors classes. I did it because it was far more enjoyable for me to 'get by' and go half fun out side of school "
I'm guessing that it wasn't honors English was it?
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The valedictorian at my highschool went off to Yale, and returned less than a year later because she got knocked up by the first guy who looked at her.
I guess that A she got in health class didn't result in a whole lot of practical knowledge of birth control.
If it makes you feel any better, the valedictorian at my wife's high school dated football players, got straight As in college in its highly-selective honors program, got a job in banking, and then married a total slacking loser. I really have no idea what the fuck she was thinking when she married me.
Re: (Score:2)
Maybe she too realized there was more to life than perfect grades, and married someone who was fun to be with so when she gets home she can enjoy life :)
Re: (Score:2)
On a different note, now that you meantion it, I don't remember any sort of birth control meantioned in school at all. I probably wouldn't have heard about the pill, but I don't remember anyone mentioning condoms either.
On that note though, by the time they got around to talking about sex, we pretty much all knew the deal. I certainly wasn't active, but I was the guy who told his friends to use condoms so they didn't end up as a daddy ( which, they didn't, so they did ).
Re: (Score:2)
On a different note, now that you meantion it, I don't remember any sort of birth control meantioned in school at all.
I don't know where you went to school, but I learned about condoms and the pill (and possibly others... it was a long time ago) in 7th grade, and learned about every single mainstream birth control method in 10th. Must have sunk in to some degree or another, because I did not become a father for the first time until age 29.
Not teaching kids about birth control is total insanity.
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The way our trig and calc homework was graded in high school was very discouraging, on top of, as you mentioned, taking obscene amounts of time (2-3 hours a day, if you didn't go back and check everything). Each assignment, no matter the length, was 5 points. Each problem that wasn't done, was incomplete, or had an error in it subtracted a point.
One minor calculation error in one of a set of 15 problems? Well, now you're at a 4/5 (80%, B-). Made two (you almost certainly did, since you didn't have anoth
Re: (Score:1)
Clearly, they need to put that extra time in to English, so they can be properly understood when communicating on Slashdot...